E10: Starting a Family Beer Business with Jamie LaGrow

Jim: What is up Remote Start Nation, my name is Jim Doyon, your host and I want to welcome you to another episode of Remote Start. Today we have a very special episode as I bring on entrepreneur and good friend of mine, Jamie LaGrow. Jamie is built in organic beer company based out of Chicago with his brothers and they are doing incredibly well and have a great future ahead of them plan. So today I wanna really bring on Jamie to talk about, what it's like building a brand and living your desired lifestyle, I wanna talk about how LaGrow started, how Jamie and his brothers came to be partners and what that's like being in business with your family. I wanna talk about the importance of organic and that's something that I think as consumers we don't think about often, is organic, organic, organic and the difference in quality and what it does for us, so I really want Jamie to talk about that and about how being an entrepreneur and, and you're you know bringing in good to your body and what that does as a result. And then also I really wanna to get in deep with Jamie about the future of LaGrow organic and really talk about what they're going to through right now with their company and a big branding change and what that could do for their brand so without further ado, I’d really like to introduce to you Jamie LaGrow, Jamie, what's up brother?

Jamie: What's up Jim, thank you so much for inviting me your podcast, I'm super excited.

Jim: Thank you and I know we've been talking about this for a while and you are, you are down in Florida right now as a mine we both battling some a heat wave but I'm not gonna complain it's been it's beautiful out here.

Jamie: Yeah, I know it is beautiful, I mean it's a lot nicer than it is up in the Midwest right now but I'm mean enjoying the weather even though it's hot.

Jim: Yes, very true, very very true. So Jamie I wanna start off, I want you to, you know, Remote Start is about building a business, building a brand, and living your desired lifestyle so I wanna start off by asking, how did you start LaGrow, and not only how did you start LaGrow but you know what did you do before?

Jamie: Okay, that's a, that's a good question, so my brothers and I have been in business for a long time together so I'll  kind of start at the beginning here, so first business of course was the you know candy stand outside of my parents house can't miss I mean that was the first one that we did together. Were you know, my mom fronted the money and then we never paid her back and then Steve, you know, we don't we would not count the money at the end of the day and like, oh sweet, she be she'd like well did you cover your expenses so she kind of, she kind of was an integral part getting our mindset, you know, for our future. So then in college I actually started a valet a company, now Michigan State University, the evergreen grill which is no longer there, I had need for a valet service because they didn't have very much parking so I started that that was really simple low startup up cost all cast, you know, it was just something that was simple to start up but not many people did, then I probably that to actually a self study for one of my professors and you know presented my business in business school and then beyond that once I graduated from college, that's why and I went to the finance side of, so right after leaving college I went to Chicago and then I started in the finance business now we I start my own business right away I kind of learned the ropes from being on the, so I was down on the CPOE, which is where they trade options, so really heavy corporate side trading, you know, finance and numbers. So I was there for probably about three or four years and then which actually I gotta give a shout out to my brother's Sam who got me the job on the floor of the CEO E exchange, and then we ended up working at the same company and then I left the company and he very shortly after that left the company and we went to a different company based on, so the company was really heavy into software, so it's going from the floor up to, you know trading from screens upstairs that does, so I ended up leaving in doing that, and it was government treasuries is what I was trading and then we were pretty successful and what we ended up doing was starting our own financial for a call, financial way back to the day, this is back in that, you know, 2006, 2007 in that business for my brother's nine lasted about five years, I'm from 2007 till 2012, and it was successful we decided to end up getting out while you know, the getting was good and when we ended up getting out we, we really put our heads together and said, okay what do you really want, you know, so you're we based in the finance world and to be honest I'm not, I mean for ourselves it wasn't very fulfilling, because at the end of the day we're just looking at numbers on a screen and there is missing something so you could be successful in that industry which we were but it wasn't fulfilling. And so between me and my two brothers, we really put our heads together said what are we passing about, so that'll lead into LaGrow organic in between 2012, 2015, when we lost launched LaGrow organic, your company, we were we were brewing and kind of putting our heads together out what we wanted to do, so homebrew in. Sam is a big component which is my brother so I have two brothers Sam and Jack, and Sam is a big component of transparency especially when it comes to what we're putting in our bodies, so all this kind of came to I had when we started LaGrow organic your company 2015. So we did financial numbers prior to see launching the organic beer company and that's because we needed to make sure that we were gonna be successful before we start.

Jim: So that's wanna stop you right there from a minute, because that's such an important part when starting your business and coming from a financial background it was probably easier for you then it might be for others in the Remote Start community, but before you launched in to actually business for and starting LaGrow organic, you ran the numbers, you had what you knew what it was gonna take to be successful, so go into that a little bit further what it looked like?

Jamie: Yeah, sure, so we well we were from the financial industry, I say that while we knew how to do numbers, we didn't really know the market for beer so we had to take our best guess so, we ended up doing a business plan and based on both a tap room and distribution and really what it came down to, with the numbers and Sam being organically minded, we had to really pick a part of that organic market make sure that we were gonna be successful, so there's no there's nothing out there that just tells you, hey here's the numbers for organic here, you know, so you can go to the USDA, you can do all your research at the end of the day we really have put together ourselves by just finding it and so that was a big research project for us and so that amount time, looks like it was almost like year of constant work to figure out these numbers to make sure, that while we have a passion for beer, we have a passion for organics, you have to make sure that the numbers are gonna work out, so we did numbers for everything, we do numbers for the wine market, so we had the wine market versus the organic wine market, and then we found you know, every market that had organic, you know like, produce is 35%, which is, it's far North of that now, and I say that because it's been increasing since we've done the research and that research was done a lot time.

Jim: That's because people are understanding how important it is to put good into your body, right?

Jamie: Yeah, no, that's correct and really on this understanding it, so the people that are already fully involved in buying organic options, usually I've have gone through the education process, so that being said, go ahead.

Jim: Well, as a brand you know, you look at brand identity and what sets you apart from your competition and with you three brothers going into business from the sounds of, your brand identity right off the get was, family owned business organic which is gonna set you apart and you know, what else as far as your brand like really, what are some of the values that you hit on with your with your brand and your business with your family that you know, really sets you apart.

Jamie: Well I think we like to speak to out authenticity, so being authentic will wait yet and we have from the start only grew organic beer and we can go into what that means and a little bit but the values our family, they're transparency in our ingredients, providing a premium product that tastes awesome and I think we've really nailed that, and then you know making sure that we're true to who we are in that in as far as businesses concerned, just slapping organic on something you know that's not really being up and we go through as much as we possibly tend to make sure that our end product is pure and one of the examples I have how well how do you make sure it's pure, well we send our every time we did a new supplier we'll send our end products, so it can out to San Francisco which is in West Cost Labs they will test our beer for all chemicals so specifically what we're worried about is that between base chemicals and pesticides that end up in our beer and so making sure that the entire supply chain is correct, the only way to do that is to put everything together, put it in the can, send it out have test it and redo that.

Jim: So incredible.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah so there's, we make sure that the supply team is pure and we're authentic and then we're definitely family and independent in business for a very long time that that definitely has pros and cons I can tell, alright.

Jim: So let's, let's go back on that for a minute. So you start your first business when you're young and kids together then you start, you go to Michigan State, you start a valley parking company then you, you transition into the financial sector, you start doing business with your brother Sam, and then at what point, so that's your first business as a family together other than when you're kids, right? So was it a pretty easy like hey let's go in enough business together we know each other, we know our you know strengths and weaknesses or did it take a lot of you know probably both of you going back and forth and saying, is this you know, is this gonna make sense?

Jamie: Yeah, so for the finance company it was a little easier than probably most situations, and that's because in that time we kind of hit it correctly as far as you know, launch and what we were doing so the market was good for us, so when numbers and you start seeing profit right away, so that's why it was probably fairly easy, in the financial, in that so that was pretty easy we do know each other's strengths and weaknesses and I actually you said Sam but also Jack, was involved in that business too.

Jim: He was, so all three of you?

Jamie: Yeah, so actually Jack had a screen company, in Grand Rapids Michigan and moved out to Chicago to you know, be with his two brothers and so when he moved out there that's be shortly after that started that financial company, so all three of us were involved we definitely all three have different personalities and as a whole, we're really good.

Jim: What's your, what's your biggest strength that you bring to the table?

Jamie: I would say sales.

Jim: And then so you've got your sales, who is the more operational mind behind the group?

Jamie: Sam is the operational guy, he's the, he's the numbers go, he's really good at doing numbers, and making sure and actually you're not having really good calls, on where the future is and where we're at, so and Jack is our brewer, he's very meticulous.

Jim: And so do you as you come across different situations or different things that come up, do you always try to stay in your lane and if it relates to sales the brother say, hey Jamie, go ahead or is it something that you all go at it and you all have your ideas and then in the end you decide on something how does that work?

Jamie: Yeah , I mean that's probably the in the, in the beer company I would say, that's probably the toughest to staying in the lane, I mean especially with family, so with family there's lines that can be crossed because you know you're gonna see them at Thanksgiving, in Christmas and Easter, so you cross those lines because you know you can always come back  that can be very dangerous because when you're with, when you're just business partners, when you're just business partners the risk is like you're you, you separate, that's not a risk so it does add a little, which I mean maybe that's maybe that's why it works because and it stays together, the business because there's not separation and you know there can't be, you can say some things that you might not want to say knowing that everything will be hopefully okay so, I mean it's, it's a probably end a concept.

Jim: So at holiday dinners, has mom and dad ever had to jump in and get involved and say stop talking shop?

Jamie: Oh my mom and dad are very pull to making sure everything months needed, so there's no doubt about that I mean they definitely talk about it and referee every once a while so.

Jim: Well you guys have started a great business and how long how long now how many years has LaGrow organic been around?

Jamie: So we launched in 2015 at 5435 North Wall, I mean that's, so we did everything in the, in 2015, we bought a bottling machine a forehead bottling machine, we bought a labeler, we bought a fermenter, we rented the space in Chicago and which already had so but we needed our own equipment passed the brewery system so really what ended up happening was former brewery went out business we went in and rented it and then we bought our to quickly that we use package, so anyways we did everything, so we did the processing ingredients and then brewerying and the packaging which is not fun that's I got six in the morning till kind of at night type of deal we Jack and Same you know really boots for gravity at in the beginning. And then we once it's in the packaging, then we would go on we would deliver it and then we would be collecting the money as well so I mean from start to finish we Jack and Sam did everything you know for first two years, so it was, that was a very, it's hard I mean everyone is all hands on that and I'm not saying it's any easier now, now we're just growing, so everyone's gotta a step up what they're, what they're doing on the larger scale.

Jim: So let's talk about that transition for a minute, because I think that'll help a lot of the community and the Remote Start Nation of you know, you're at the start and for it sounds like the first two years, it was all three you bootstrapping it and being hands on and I could tell you from my experience, it's always tough to leave that, being involved in doing everything in the business to kind of stepping back letting other people handle some of the things some of the tasks or projects and then setting a straight focus on your next target, so let's talk about that transition a little bit and what that was like of going from doing everything yourselves to starting to bring in others to help.

Jamie: Yeah, I mean we're still in that process so, yeah I mean, so we were really down the trenches doing everything from the beginning in that transition every time you get to your capacity of what you can do somebody, somebody else needs to take over that that previous you know that previous task, so the first step was, okay now we need to increase our margins somehow in order to be your next, which is very important, because we while we were doing everything we had pretty good margins but you could only do so much so that transition was well this where were you wanted to get, or is this a bigger, bigger idea, and so that decision, the next decision was, okay let's figure out the next step and so the next step was either building out building out the brewery which was is not still is not our space where we're renting or figuring out somebody who could do it better. So that next transition you know on the brewing side was we can brew small batches in this brewery or we could have a co packer for which I'm sure a lot of entrepreneurs will come across since his co packing. So they could do it at a lower cost and they could do it with a better quality control and they can make it taste better and they could have less space, so that next transition for us was really let's do this at volume, we can't package all this ourselves through it and do everything and so it was kind of it an easy decision because they had an actual lab that they could do to quality to controller, they and for all those reasons we could start focusing on the suppliers of our ingredients and really bring recipes outside of production, we start experimenting for those stuff so we could really free our ourselves up so, so the next step after that two years was to get help with the brewing process and then now we're at the point of either which we only went with to distribution opening an outside tap room Chicago which is looking like that will be a joint venture between us and the only the other family brewery in Chicago which is smiley brothers. Yeah, yeah so we're looking at doing an outside noise there and then moving on to the next distribution so, now we can focus out, okay we wanna go national, it's time to start going national, and that what that means is why I’m in sales I went from beating on the doors to hiring salespeople to go into national chains and having sales reps work with the search, so you just kind of ship all the way shift all the way up to and then who knows where my next well my next what will be which will be you know managing sales reps and distributor the rest but even for they're going into Nassau Global Managing.

Jim: So that's quite the journey. Let's talk about for a minute the you know, the journey of LaGrow and you talked about you know, your role and some of the different steps but you know as a brand you hit on getting into national chains and as a brand, you know, let's talk about when you when you first started in some of the things that you thought about and now like I know there's a rebranding project because , I might have been involved in that at some other projects that are on the horizon for you that are, I'm sure you didn't even think about years ago and now it's like you're getting into these national chains and what's next, so let's talk about that for a minute.

Jamie: Yeah so this industry is very interesting I mean it's not like we can just send it across the world right away because it's a, it's much more difficult in that. So the first national chain, that I went into was whole and let me tell you it was probably the most difficult we took almost over a year and I never thought I was going happen mainly because the regional buyer said, listen, you have one sku, we only launch on my, yeah, you have one sku, so if you mess up any of these excel sheets I'm not even of look at it, it's gonna kick back and up got.

Jim: No pressure there, no pressure.

Jamie: So, I spent like two days and as not ever trying to get it into an national chain before going through, I'm like there's no way this is gonna happen state like, there's just you know it's almost impossible, so anyways I put all together I send and we got a response, and so we need be set up in so many different ways I we'll go to those details, but they said, yes, and it was awesome, so they started up with just opening being the Chicago, that go out you know yeah you guess you can sell in outfits, but you need go to each store so it's, it's not like we were just like, oh we're in hopefully on national, great, I'll call, you can't do that, I mean if you're in a different industry you can do that you, you can be like alright here's go across the entire United States and do an national chain a lot easier than kind beer, because beer we have three tier systems so somebody's gotta actually deliver to store. I can't deliver in each state that has a different law so it's way different but, so now that was both foods and then we ended up going you know marching through Illinois, moving up Michigan distribution and then with one of our friends named Rich Suarez, it's very important to have taking action especially in the beer industry, helped us get into Puerto Rico, and so we didn't know what to expect with Puerto Rico, we didn't know if it was gonna be good or bad, they ordered I think maybe one pallet or two ballots picked it up from our dock and it got to the island and week later they ordered, I believe fourteen counts and one my brothers look at each other, what?! We had no expectations just because we didn't know we didn't know the part and I think that part of the success there is that, they do have their very, they have very similar values to what the broker your company does as for as the item so I mean so that was an interesting, interesting win and honest part typically bring that, that is going well to this day and then we have our speech in Michigan and Illinois.

Jim: So you start with whole foods and Puerto Rico comes long still going strong then what?

Jim: So now, so like I said we're Michigan, Illinois, Puerto Rico and then in couple weeks here we're marching into the Meyer chain with our IPA and our block and the way it works there is that you are similar other to this you're on a zoom call and you present their sales stock to the to the buyer and then they send an email three months later saying yes or no and Meyer did send us an email it said, yes, from our presentation here, so now where we, where are we going now? So we've got approval four whole foods all the way down to the Southeast piece but now it's a tough max for, because well they said, yes in go Southeast and Northeast, we still only define the distribution partners in order to you know start really moving forward on Nashville in order to do that we need to lock in some more retail chains besides hopefully foods their gray partner but they wanna see you know some bigger ones, or not bigger ones that I would say like grocery change like public, like public comes on board they just want enough to deliver in each state where it makes sense which I get and it's hard for us but we just need to get a couple more yes’s from retail change with, which is what I’m working.

Jim: I was gonna ask, so with you and the sales role is that is that your primary focus at this point?

Jamie: For me, right now, yes. And it's just one of those chess pieces to be able to get a distributor to say yes, because you need them as well, so with the current laws and place in each state, we need to lock in some bigger retail chains so that the distributors will say yes.

Jim: So there you go Remote Start Nation, if you're listening and you have an in with distribution there we go, Jamie Lagrow hit him up. So Jamie that's and you also I kind of hit it on in a little bit but you, you've been working on a project to, to do a complete rebrand and I've had the honor and privilege of our team working on that and it's, I'm so excited to reveal that here in the near future and it just goes with that next stage of growth for your company and, so yeah I'm, I'm very happy for you and all the success that you and your brothers have had and I cannot wait to see what the future holds. I wanna hit on one more thing before we get off, I wanna go back, we started to talk about organic and the importance of organic and really what step sets you apart so much from your competition and you know, not only do you have the beer now and a lot of different skus and different flavors of beer but you've also jumped into the seltzer market and you know I've had the privilege of tasting the cells myself it's delicious and to know that it's, as I'm drinking this, it's actually something that's healthy that I'm putting in my body, well you got alcohol on it right which is the exciting part but it's also I'm not worried about putting negative things in my body that I might not know about. Let, let's talk about organic a little bit more and just what you know there's so many health conscious consumers out there and you know I wanna hear about why, why it's so important to drink you know your beer and seltzer versus you know maybe something else that might be out there.

Jamie: Well so I kind of, I'll go back as well so when we were doing this and looking for something to be fulfilling and we wanted to go into beer specifically because it's a passion, one of the things that we discovered is how much it means the environment for one to through organic beer, so while it might be five acres of production for the hops that we use over here, we're talking football fields and football fields that we buy from the farm right now, where that groundwater is protected and it's because we're buying what they're selling right so they're gonna continue to plant more and more organic fields of grain which is huge that was like I mean that wasn't our first thought, our first thought was what's going in our body is very important and the unintended knowledge that we ended up figuring out is how much groundwater we're actually saving from pollution and so even if you're not drinking organic beer, your benefiting from companies like us, meet and that's saving the whole field of being just doused with terrible templates. So now what does it mean, so that's one environmental is good and it's good for everybody. On the other side, where what we were originally doing it for is transparency and what's going in our body and I'll call for one you don't have to put the ingredients on as of now and that is 2022, you don't have to list the ingredients saying you, you put in beer, we do and we do that for transparency but what's crazy to me is that people that have vices, don't necessarily wanna be poisoned, now alcohol for sure is not great for you and big quantities but alcohol plus chemicals is really bad for so even though you like to sit back or kick back and have a beer doesn't mean that you wanna be you know poisoned with the coming since and I'm not saying that they're all like that I'm just saying I know ours this dispute and that that's what macros to me. When we are doing our research on this what was very interesting to look at is spiced, so for instance, American spirit which I'm not doing smoking by any means but one of their biggest year over year, increases as far as percentage wise of sales, was there was there organic to tobacco? Now, I'm looking at these numbers and they're like you know 30% over year like everyone's starting to see, oh wait a second, just because I like to or I have a vice doesn't mean I want poison, you know, cells from the back side it was just tobacco in water, that's what they're need to ours, is just grain, paths and yeast, so same with wine, so wine has gone way North of where beer right now, so the wine market is at about 4% organic so 4% of their overall market and that's a huge number especially globally, nationally, those are, those are big numbers. So it's kind of all in one, I mean it's what the consumer really does want especially when they start doing research, I would guess, so as we're in this age of information we can grab it at you know, at from anywhere you are, via your phone or whatever. As people start getting in into their own research, I really do think that this is the way it should, this is the way our food should be, our food system, our alcoholic, our other drinks, everything should be appear and we actually as a company have to go through a ton hectares in order to just be pure and what's really crazy about our market is and all the other markets is that, you don't really have to go through very much to essentially put chemicals in there, but if you're saying that you are not putting chemicals in, well there's a lot of extra cost for you, so it's weird but we're willing to go through it because that I do think that's where it's going and how know people vote with their dollar and you know information is available for the people that are looking for, so at the end of the day, they answer their question like as far as why organic mean it's good for the environment, it's good for you, the cost from our product isn't crazy above what you would pay for a conventional product and then it takes the taste is, when we first did brew with all our ingredients we had no idea to expect so I'll honest with you, we just did it and then we're like, wow that's amazing. And there's other benefits to bring organically where the half breakdown inside the cans closing by they break down a lot, a lot slower than they would because there's no chemicals in that breaking account right down, but it's slow so therefore you have a longer shelf like which people are like that blows our mind, yeah, what, that doesn't make sense, I don't think it's the opposite, but the taste holds up, because you're only, you only have three ingredients, so I don't know if that was a long way to answer to.

Jim: No, that's great though, and it's good to know that because those of us that haven't done all the research, it's good to know what you know what we're drinking or what it's doing in the environment out there, so yeah, you know hats off to you and your brother's first standing strong and making sure that everything you do is organic. So Jamie we had mentioned that you could find organic your organic beer and seltzer in whole foods and it's gonna be launching in Meyers soon, but where else can Remote Start  Nation find your products?

Jamie: Oh, thank you for asking, so like you said whole foods and block G and minor, also target is a place that will be able to that were in and then I would like to give some shout some of our smaller local chains and really supportive from the beginning places which is Green Grocer in Chicago, Simply Fresh Market in Michigan, Holly Market which is chain in Michigan, a lot of these people have been with us from the beginning so while we have those, those big chains there's also those, those smaller devices, Fresh Time is another chain that's been with us or has carried our product for while. So well also in addition, well while sitting here we just, just got our first order for New York City, so I'm glad to be able to on your podcast and that's no joke while we've been doing this, we got our first order from our distributor, in New York City and we're really excited to about that at some that's another place that they'll be able to find it very soon , I don't know what the specific stores it'll be in New York City but my guess is that'll be there in May, so or for summer, let's say.

Jim: That's awesome, yeah. You know one, one last quick question of fun question here so, when you when you're working, when you're getting your work done, I'm curious what kind of, do you listen to music or do you like silence?

Jamie: That's a good question, but work in silence, for me.

Jim: Okay, which is gonna be tough with a lot of kids on their own.

Jamie: Yeah yeah, yeah no, silence is tough to come by but I do bring my speaker everywhere I go, when I not so definitely music when work is out.

Jim: What's your music of choice?

Jamie: My music of choice, well what's crazy is everything that's been happening the last couple of years, I've somehow, I'd ended up in country and I don't know why, I mean, I lived in Chicago forever, I lived in Michigan forever, this I don't, I don't know one, I mean it it's just something I want to, but that's my music of choice. What's your music of choice?

Jim: You know it's, I actually have an episode on this, one of my first episodes and I've asked a lot of the guests the same question but you know, I listened to everything all across the board and but it starts off in the morning usually my routine is I'm listening to something a little heavier some metal some punk some you know, something fast paced in the morning as I'm trying to play my routine, get my day plan, drink my coffee, and then once I start to get the work, it usually switches to like classical or just some chill beats or something like that, that I could kind of focus on. I have a hard time in silence, because then my mind starts to wonder so the music helps me to kind of rain in my thoughts and let me kind of have a more focused approach which, so that's it's interesting to hear other entrepreneurs point on, on music and what they listen to because some like silence and some like music and so know, I know music is it's a big part of all our life so it's, it's fun to hear what other entrepreneurs are doing out there.

Jamie: Well it hasn't been the same since you know, day one, I mean, I definitely changed what I listen to but..

Jim: So in, so in Florida, as you're cruising around on your, in your house down there what it what it's, it's country western by choice?

Jamie: It is, I don't know, that's I mean it could be in South, who knows.

Jim: Yeah, we listen, the RV life we've, my daughter introduced us to some   country's singers that we didn't know before and I countries taken over a lot of our music play while we are driving so I feel you man.

Jamie: because you feel me we're not seeing either I get into some heavy death metal.

Jim: There you go!

Jamie: I’ll try it tomorrow, I'll try it tomorrow he did a work workout together and out maybe I'll see what my, what maybe I'll see what my time looks like in my workout tomorrow with death metal as opposed silent, country I would.

Jim: Let me know, if you're able to hit those higher numbers.

Jamie: Yeah, I will, well yeah, we'll just leave that, that other part of, I will I know if I hit beat your notes.

Jim: Yeah, right, I'm still sore from our workout.

Well you heard it here first, Remote Start Nation, New York City, Jamie Lagrow Organic Beer growing fast coming to you from all over the place, but Jamie if we if it's not in a market that our consumers our listeners are in now, where can they find you how can they follow you? I'd imagine our social you're gonna be putting a lot of updates on where to go, where to get your product, so where can they go to find you?

Jamie: lagrowbeer.com and our handle is @lagrowbeer  so for our social.

Jim: Awesome, well congrats again, Jamie, I'm super excited to see you continue to grow you and your brothers fortunate enough to have worked with you personally, and consider you a good friend, so thank you again for taking the time and not only just sharing us, sharing with us your entrepreneurial experience but your journey and hopefully the Remote Start Nation took as much value out of our conversation as I did listening to so thank you again and I hope you have an awesome day man.

Jamie: Thank you Jim and I look forward to our branding coming not very soon, so thank you very much!

Jim: Awesome, stay tuned and Remote Start Nation with that, go start something, have an awesome day, an awesome week and we'll see you soon!