E15: Musician, Author, Tattoo Artist, and Entrepreneur with Karlos Kowaleski

Jim: What is up Remote Start Nation! Let's get something started. I'm Jim Doyon, and welcome to another episode of Remote Start, where I bring you the stories and strategies on how to start a business, build a brand, and create your desired lifestyle. Today's episode, I wanna bring on someone I'm known for since the very early stages of my last company Ink Addict Apparel, someone who was in one of the first bands that we worked with and got behind a promote. He's since gone on to start his own business, Box 5 Tattoo in fine art located in Livonia Michigan, he's also started another band, he’s an author and is also host to his own podcast. So today, Remote Start Nation, I wanna introduce you to Karlos Kowaleski, as we discuss how running a band and running a business have parallels and how you can take some of the knowledge heat drops and turn that into maybe an something that you're going through right now, and turning that into maybe starting your own business. So without further ado, I wanna introduce you to Karlos. Los, what is up man, welcome to the Remote Start Nation.

Karlos: Good to see you man.

Jim: You too dude, I'm so happy to have you here today, I wanna, I wanna start this off, I want you to tell me one thing that if someone were to just meet you, they wouldn't know about you.

Karlos: For sure, you're not gonna get this vibe from this interview and I don't think any of your, your viewers that listening to but I was super shy dude, like really quiet, when it comes to tattooing or being on stage or anything like that of course I got to give the gap, but I like the, go go go, I like to get it into any top of it imagine and find like a cool segue into the velocity be of politics and aliens and everything but I'm like super quiet, super shy wouldn't you, wouldn't get that if you sell me right away for sure and I really think with how like shy I am wouldn't be like oh yeah it's test probably a profitable business owner.

Jim: And that's, you know, it's funny because so I remember when we first met and seeing you on stage and like everybody in the audience was just like eyes on those, like, just your performance it was incredible and always was and so when you're on stage it's like your shy self then it's completely somebody else.

Karlos: Right yeah, totally gone and I've like thought of it as like character based before but not really like it's authentic you know when I'm on stage and I'm like locked in music I think what was attractive in those days of live performance is that I believe that in that performance whole wholeheartedly right so I wasn't shy on stage at all because I was like this is what we're here for so let me you know just open up and I remember selling so for like a before that turn happened I was like look dude, I think on the next show I'm just gonna like really let it go, they're like what you talking about, I thought you already got it so I'm like not I'll like, really, I like and I had like long hair at the time, and there's just like this weird bouncing dance that used to do because I was just like feeling in the vibe of everything and I don't know if that's what locked down to me or whatever, I don't know if there's just the movements on stage or the theatrical of like the performance or whatever, but yeah I remember somebody wants it's like, dude you could read the back of the box cereal and that would be into it.

Jim: That's kinda I felt, from the stands watching and slow man, So talking about music and this episode about, know, the transformation from music to business and how it parallels, and you know, when let's talk like go back and talk about your first band and kinda like your whole background of music and being in a band.

Karlos: For sure, yeah. The very first I don't know, how much you would know about was actually but I had seventh year hip hop but before I did music, and that was like it's, maybe sophomore, junior high schools when that started, and we had high school like twenty-two hundred people so we always had a lot of people we could try to sell cds too this is back when people burning cds out, right. So we had like a major hustle and so basically I guess you'd say I was a kid, right? Sixteen, seventeen years old, I'm trying to run a business recording music burning cds, selling to people, recording new music, see rinse repeat after I graduated, there was always like different iterations of the hip- hop persona, like, the first it was a horror work or like think like ICP type music, first a group was called Twofold Horror and then there's one called Drama Disc, and then there's one called Cellar Mannequin, Cellar Mannequin is more of like a, Ciphery backpack hip hop type dude, there's a little bit more like college type hip hop rather than like I’m around hardcore, but all of those we did like for merchants and for mini tours and festivals and all like kind stuff, and then after that, I switched towards in a metal music, and that's where most people will knew me from.

Jim: That's where we still met.

Karlos: Yeah, yeah, we had met when your company wasn't even what your company became yet, we met when your company with a still of life let's scan your tattoos and put them on your own clothing, that must the very, yeah, the very first iteration of being added apparel.

Jim: That's probably 2009?

Karlos: I feel like it was earlier, I mean you have a more accurate estimate on when you were but I know that I'm fire, starting six a seven.

Jim: So yeah, so yeah, in fact you're right, that was because we're still the basement, we're were in my basement, we're were still so yeah that was 07, 08, because you gotta started in 07, so yeah,  you're right, that's damn dude, that's taken it way back.

Karlos: Yeah, and then doing that band, we needed merch for so then that's when we like hit you up, like, hey like you know have do you ever even considered doing like banding t-shirts like , I know you have your old thing but like fancy yeah for sure, for sure, and that's point we're both of us are hustling, and that were yeah, of course I do that.

Jim: Yeah exactly.

Karlos: Try to get where you fit in. So yeah we did band for from 2007 or 2006 to 2012, so six years there. and then, then that's where I start tattooing and I remember this like hard cut like I was a premise still while was in that fire to put in the metal band, but as soon as I did like my first tattoo like, just band is over, and it wasn't that was coincidental, it wasn't like you know, okay guys band’s got to break up some tattoo remember think of that, and then there's a ten year gap of tattooing before I started another day.

Jim: So back to that transition of at this point you decide, you've always been very creative, in fact like the bad on fire album artwork, does that did you do that?

Karlos: Yeah, yeah I used to do all our out our work and I would do the majority of our t-shirt design sometimes I have to out outsourcing because I'm upgraded to t-shirts but like painting out artwork or likely physically oil painting gal work, photograph it, or digital, I did all those.

Jim: I remember that, I remembered and they were always awesome and something too just a little backtrack to the bad on fire days I'll tell you of all the bands that we used to work with and promote and I think I've told you this I know I told your brother but the one thing I respect and loved the most about your band is that, you had such a story to tell and it was always, there was always something more to it than just the music of the performance, like when you listen to it was you know the whole album told a story and I love that because it was something that you know even as a business or you know anything we do and like there's a story behind it right, and to get your audience involved to tell that story you guys did such a good job with that, so I don't know if I ever told so I wanna let you know but so, yeah definitely man, and I know that's not easy to do so, yeah, hats off on that. So now back to where I was gonna go when you, you're in music you start a p to be a tattoo to ours what was do you remember like it was just like your love of art that got there like what was that transition?

Karlos: So I was always getting tattooed and prior to beating it's had to her as a oil painter and I thought that was really good, it almost seems like every year I looked back previous about, you're not good, you suck last year, now you're good and then the next year like, you suck like right so I always thought I was a good painter who really knows. At this point I've given up painting entirely but when I retired from painting I was a really talented hyper oil and can say that without any ego, but at that time I was just doing paintings and getting in tattooed and like trying to chum up to my tattoo artist and trying to use big hard turns and make it sound like, yeah like when do you guys because at that point foolishly literally I thought that tattoos were the strongest artists in the entire world, because they had the know every single art style, every single application element that had do perfect every single time so I thought man that's the top tier and boy was I way off well, with the more tattoo I growing up like that's not really good spot at that time like I was just like, kinda coming up to them and this is like never happens in it's got world but they offered me the apprenticeship, they're like to do, you gotta learn and how to so you gotta get it this and I thought it was like a respect the art type thing police shit they see me as like a strong artist and it's a good move, which was the case but there's mostly just the only thing gong, we gotta get the sky working in the shop, so the transition team just from being attach the collector and then they're like you know saying like, hey, you should do this instead you'll make some good money out, again okay, we'll see i and then get like super seriously no dude you sure do this see good money had like oh okay I always to think it super seriously too I as never flip into Nevada it, I was just like okay, I guess I'll give them it a shot and then as soon as you dive in that world like everything changes.

Jim: I remember, you're such a student your trade too like I remember the conventions and senior you at and you're like yeah I didn't get a booth, but I'm here taking seminars and learning and hanging out with you know the top artists in you know whatever the medium was that you were trying to I think it was painting oil painting right like that you were trying to really understand and learn and like to and like you said when you stop painting which I didn't know you stopped by the way that's another conversation there but we, you said you know you were you're incredibly talented and I can vouch that you, I mean phenomenal so but you didn't start there like you came from you know…

Karlos: Humble beginnings.

Jim: Humble beginnings to where you are, like and I think a lot of that was obviously push yourself in everything you do I've seen that personally but you know you're also like I said a you know you're always trying to get taught and learn and you're not just some of that's gonna sit back and just think that you're awesome and you're gonna continuously try to improve yourself, so hats off on that, man.

Karlos: Thank you, yeah I've always been super motivated, I've never ever, ever, ever been afraid to chase a dream so I was something I've gone for. I think whether it's music, business, painting, hobbies, whatever it is like if you wholeheartedly we just go for it you're gonna get somewhere, it's just how should put this the amount of a fuck you give, over to time equals success, so like because long as you're constantly trying to progress and constantly trying to get better and you believe it's too, it's like, I've seen people I have a firm and I haven't spoke to do in ten years but I have a friend who got a MFA from Master of Fine Arts from Art Institute of Chicago, it's a you know world class museum, world class program, and she can't draw all palm tree, you know like because she didn't care about it, she just kinda like know I guess I'll do our and you know parents paid her way through college and all that stuff and I'm just didn't work but if like you're really truly believe it for yourself and you're motivated then yeah you can basically accomplish anything it's just you know, that's so much easier to say to somebody who's not like a already of that mindset then for them to like turn it but I had to turn it like I grew up like so anxious just and depressed and felt like even worth with and all that stuff and painting was the first thing in particular that I felt like I could be good at, and with like every brush stroke you're like man, people are gonna love this, people gonna love with this side, this is gonna be great, I'm gonna get another notoriety that's whatever it is and I  just kinda like nurtured that a positive addiction out I guess and that turned into that kinda gust but really like if I wanted to boil all that down it's just that's fearless of just like one we might as well go for and, like be brave and if I hit lift my edge over the competition is that like I have the balls to go for it, to just to do what I wanna do, and like be seen doing it, that's like it's so easy for me you know even being a shy person it's so easy for me to be like, oh the next guy isn't willing to try it at hard oh well I'll try super hard, no.

Jim: Well that's a good point, and Remote Start Nation, I wanna go back to a minute to go is something that Los said, you can get anywhere you wanna get to over time, right? Like, too many times I see people that jump in and right away they expect to be the best at something or right away they if they don't get it they, they get they give up, and you didn't do that you took lessons, you did the things that you needed to do to master your skill and now you are where you're at today and you're continuously growing, so you know you brought up a great point and thank you for bringing that I hope Remote Start Nation, you can really take that to heart and look at that value and if you're getting into something if you're about to leave a career, if you're if you're not in a career yet and you're looking to jump into a skill or a craft, understand it's gonna take time, it's a little pieces that you put every day towards that, that in the end are gonna get you get you to where you wanna be, so keep working hard don't give up. So Los, let's move on for a second from, alright so you're in your apprenticeship and now at what point obviously you tattoo for a lot of years before you start to you know think about getting into your own business, let's talk about what that looks like?

Karlos: So I had been to for, let's say six years, five or six years before open out the business and I was doing really good and I'm gonna throw like some numbers around maybe, I even to do that but I was doing really good, like, really good and financially I sprint had a lot of clients as always booked doing eight to nine hour days, five days a week at a hundred and fifty two dollars an hour so was like a lot of money was coming through, and life was great and I was on a percentage base I was at percentage based shop where to cut out 45% to the house, right? and I was just living great, had a lot of blow money, like it was going good, and then we had our first kid I'm gonna lay this on her, then we had our first kid and Kelly had to take time off work there's no like health insurance tattoo industry, we have to pay for it out pocket if you wanted it, and so we had a first kid, Kennedy and Kelly had to cut hours back to be mom and we, I think we lost entirely the health benefits that she had from her job so I had to pay for it out the pocket and then at that time I was like oh a thousand dollars a month out the pocket kinda hurts so I need to make some more money. So I have always said I did don't wanna be a shop owner, I don't wanna own my own business I just wanna show up to my art and leave and focus on getting that or better, better, better and let somebody else have the headache of running the company. Well at a certain point that choice out of my hands because the place that I was scheduling it they weren't willing to give me raise, so like I need to make more money, so I'm gonna have to do this on my own, I suppose. And when I ran the numbers it was like,20,000 dollars a year cheaper to run my own to business than to cut out what I was coming out to the house because I was already making so much money doing tattoos, so alright well that's an brainer and just you know take pudding and do here, put over here, get a raise and then now if you can afford you know how to raise your family and all that, and like you know for that extra 20k or whatever you're gonna have to learn not to run company. There was a huge complication that happened there because I was working on the construction of the business site, fell and broke my back, and what was out of work for a few months, and then that threw a wrench all the works financially so that became a big catastrophe, but you know we got back on our fee we're working today that's totally fine we're profitable it's good, but what I figured out is that where my wife was working she's a child associate she hair and her income was at or slightly just slightly below what we would pay a full time manager at the shop, so it's like well kind of like going to work and busting your back and is my employee, why she just quit and can work at the shop, so that's what she did and then she was able to absorb those managerial duties so I was able to go focus right back and just show up to my tattoos, go home, get better become a better as better, but then also run my own so that that's like why the turn happened, that's the motivation for why we had built in from place.

Jim: So that's one point you had on that I think so important in business and I've talked about it in past episodes and it's about finding that partner, finding that other person that can come in and help you in the areas that you're not good as you can focus on your strengths and it's awesome that you found out with your wife that as a team now you were tackling, you know, this project in this new business and looking at your strengths and going forward with that and it sounds like that was kind of the stepping stone to getting back into that realm of you being doing what you're good at, and that focus to take you out of where you were and kind of that trajectory of what your business is at today.

Karlos: And like some of the out like, it wasn't like I was or incapable of running a business and doing my art, I don't want like put that out there but you need a kindred spirit in whatever you're doing, whether it's learning a new scale, like say you wanna become a photographer, well you need to have a friend that you're really close that you have a trust in the bond with that's gonna help you with your photography skills because they already know you know, yeah, Kelly is just better in numbers than I am, right, so it made more sense and you know to run a family business that's a fun little American dream, but after we got it role and we're a few years into this company, I've been able to like fall back onto some of my skills from running vans or from you know running like our career of promotional tactics or just you know, flyer design or something like that or know, what kind of cool swag promo stuff do we wanna together for our after bags and one I like, finding that was exciting creep creatively because like mean, I know, how to do all this stuff so like now there's an aspect of running the business where it's like well you handle the P and L’s, take care of that, I'll do all the other fun creative stuff you know I'll come in like, I'll you know sweep and mob every morning and playing out like, Oh, you know how are we gonna you know, boost our phone calls this month, like, what can I do to get more people wearing t-shirts you know, like stuff like that and try know while I'm doing a Monday activity to plot out like the next promotional tactic and then I get the tattoo for the day and feel give myself to that client holy I'm not gonna spend that time like tattooing and like they'd be quiet, day dreaming about like how get to make more money or anything, like that at that point we're just you know conversing and watching t.v. and having been a good time then twelve keeping them call and uncomfortable because I like to push people for really long hours on that too, but like, I when you have to hustle as like a younger you know artist like, you learn photoshop, you learn how king fields works, you learn like know, who to call print t shirts, you learned the difference between like you know,  sub print and a screen print and what the pricing differences are and what it's gonna work for, so to have all those skills and then be to like after we rolling for like couple of years getting you know what I have to working on both he was you know super fun.

Jim: So with the, with the pandemic and kinda talking about the parallels between the band and the business, obviously to the pandemic a lot of bands like weren't a allowed of perform lives like they didn't know what to do, right? and I saw that through a lot of my friends and for someone that you know went from being I mean you had some success in your in your bands, it wasn't like you just you know didn't was like you're just playing a little house shows but so, what's it like a big piece of advice that you can give to maybe someone that you know, the band broke up, and they don't know what to do maybe they're lost, got this great skill set or they've got something that they could go tackle but they just haven't got started what's one piece of six of that's something that you can give them that they can take away?

Karlos: So this is a little bit more meta, it's a little more hippy, but the vibe and the energy that you feel in that wave that you're rioting when you're being the creative, that is what's important, that's what matters that's the only truth to creativity. Everything else we're doing is a particular type of artifice, something that we've decided I'm gonna put that energy into sculpting little clay bowls or I'm gonna put that energy into editing music videos or whatever, so that like being faithful to that flow is what you should focus on rather than like, oh no the band broke up and I'm really into the band well, not the band like what else can you do with that energy and if you and I'm gonna pair for a comedian on this but it's you know, comedians are like our philosophers right they say the things that we already know like back in like a more field software so I don't feel any guilt and pair and somebody else for my same advice that I give to somebody but as long as you can accept that your dreams might not go exactly the way you wanted to, you'll still be fulfilled in the pursuit of doing it and we will be successful doing. So I want to be a famous of oil paint wasn't working so I became a successful musician, okay cool that's working and then that fell through, it's like man I wanna be at tattoo like okay and that's right I'm man now right and I gave a oil waiting for different reasons but I still show up every day create a piece of art visually and I'm getting cash or credit for it, so how different is that than getting commission to oil savings, right? I got to that point because I realized that that ribbon of energy is more important the specifics of what you're doing. So I would say, to be less it'd about a less meta physical about it, you just look at individual aspects of what you did in your band during your the musical endeavors if you year producer or performer and say like well you know, I know how to do this, so how can I port that to something else, if I can't tour right now or fans live like performances are just like severed 80% of what you can do and that's you know where on energy what else can I do, so say you're a producer and you're really good at pro tools, you're really good audio interfacing, well maybe you should start working on a different job that is through your computer that requires hardware that connects to your computer, right? So I'm just making one up here but what if you were a parts inspector for like a manufacturing of the company and part of doing that is hooking up rigs to the computer with peripheral like magnifier or you know, cameras or whatever, and now you get to be nerdy about those different like lenses and boxes things that go into your in their interface and then you get to be about what your interface is on your computer and do all that, that's same kinda of energy that you would have like sitting in mixing audio and the like you know hooking up like the equipment and what not, that's really what I  would say is like you know, we early on in life put the emphasis on I have this picture of what I wanna be when I succeed, I need to be a performer at this level on the billboard charts to these stadiums and that's like, okay well that's a good way to get your dream go and you get moving, but that's not where you're gonna end up, because only like four people pointed up there, so like that part go like, there's a maturity that should happen in the first ten years of being an artist where you realize like the original amount people that you're looking at is one of many, many that really what's important is how you climb, it's not you know where you end up.

Jim: That's great advice, and I like to look at it too as even to take it a little bit further and just, if you understand your skill sets and you understand what makes you happy, then there's a whole world out there that you might not, you might not know, you just have to out and uncover it and you have to look and start asking questions and start reading about you know, how that creativity that you have or that skill set or that level of something that you have, what that can translate into, right? And then from there, then it's just about going out and doing your thing like make it happen, start it like start asking question, knocking on doors whatever it takes, I mean for you to start your tattoo to apprenticeship, it's not like I mean you said they asked you but it's because you were in there talking them showing your work doing the things that it took to get to that next level, right?

Karlos: Yeah for sure, I mean go my gust oh, my input like think you know I didn't know that I was asking somebody to have the original thought to ask me to be an apprentice, right, I didn't know that, that that's what was going on but I knew that there was a reason, there's something I would do there's a reason your bragging your tattoo two are about like your paving skills right, I don't think it this is like, mean you're interviewing me right now as success so I think I have the platform this, I don't think it I don't think it matters, like, I don't think everything needs to be and that you know I there's people Iknow as logic people right and I've always been a whole state person that just kinda like trust that that flow that ribbon of energy and just goes with it and what happens, happens but if you do anything for ten years you're gonna be successful whether you want to be, your that's just how it works, you'll outlast your competitors, you'll that like you know coming and drop off, come the drop off, you'll learn stuff that takes you know ten thousand, forty thousand hours to actually learn how to do that other people don't put the time in, is just gonna happen. I had an experiment for you know most of the beginning of my tattoo career where I was doing some promo, I was doing you know put posted stuff on Instagram, with without dude some cool little cards and whatever, but I wasn't investing heavy into promotion, I was just doing my work with doing my work, doing my work, doing my work and after like maybe like five years like, I was you know booked three months out and now I was like what is going on like I'm not even trying to do this like I am not special, I'm not special, I always had this in impostor syndrome thing, but which I'm not special is, but at that point I like I didn't even ask for this it's just happening, right? I heard a really crappy crap before who's in a multi-millioner or you know several times it's probably the 20 to 50 million dollar range, but he's not good at hiphop, he's never changed like know the landscape about like, as long as you do this and you keep doing and you never ever stop and you know, remove failures of one of your options, but it's just gonna happen, it's just it's this is, how it is so I you know I lean into that and I trust it because I've experienced it, right? I don't like to let up but I don't like to be a goddamn well you know what maybe I just shouldn't do promo for those ten just let things say now that's lazy that's not gonna help you, but I just I don't believe that everything has to be on paper before you start, I pick and keep just get rolling and then it's gonna happen. And the, to use your former company as the example, you didn't know that you're gonna end up when you started touring the country and I don't know if you guys are international or not but if we're in the world doing conventions setting a pop up shops and stuff like that, you're probably just, oh yeah man we can copy people's tattoos and put them on t-shirts and then maybe run some banter on the side, you know?

Jim: You're a 100% right, I mean for me, I mean at the time that Nathan came to me with the idea to do that, I was working for a big lumber company and running a division and managing a bunch of people and in charge of all their whole sales arm of the division I was running and honestly it was like I was sick of the it wasn't even corporate family business but it was, I needed that creative I needed that I'm a very creative person I needed that creativity back and so when Nathan was like, hey let's put tattoos on people you know, from people's skin and put them on shirts like as a design like to me that just screamed creativity and I loved every second of it, and then you realized pretty quickly that that's a hard business model to actually do because at that time there wasn't you know, all of the technology that we have now, all the software that can just do that and the you know the click of a button, it was actually hiring your designer to do it all, but what it was it you just have to keep going like you said and just fine and end up being with working with artists that, okay, we really enjoyed was helping them create their own brands, right? And us promoting it through our channel which fast forward that to today and running Woodward Movement, and that's what we do but now we do that with companies and dispensaries and breweries and individuals and whatever that might be but it's the same concept we've just evolved it and for you it's still, your same you're still giving your creativity through art, it's just a different medium, right? So from music to tattooing and now running a business and running family and you know, that's one thing I wanna hit on too, is you know you're a family, man, I've got my own family you've brought your wife into work Kelly in to work with you on your business as you have told us, how like what are some thoughts on that of you know, working with your partner every day and some of the struggles because I know there's a lot of people out there that could proudly help grow their brand or their small business quite a bit if they relied on those closer to them but there's this, there's a stigma that don't work with family, you know, don't, you can't work with family but I know you've been successful at it, so talk to us a little bit about that.

Karlos: Sure, sure. Okay so I'm gonna draw parallel here, I have years I'm the worst person to ask them behaving advice because I have been with my wife for twenty years, so we got that together when we in high school, I don't know if shit about the baby world, right? I don't know, I don't know much about the world of relationships where there's fighting or separate goals that compete with each other because we've been on the same page for two decades, so I'm a bad guy to be like you know how should I run a business with my wife? It's like, well I don't know, because I don't know what your relationship is with your wife. Kelly and I have all, we've never fought, we always sit down, have conversations if something's like a major issue that needs to be resolved right, but we don't scream we don't like, you know, yeah we don't throw, we don't break things we don't go out of town for a few days to blow off steam or anything like that and I'm not saying that those aren't coping mechanisms that work for you or for anybody else but that's just that we are, so for us to work on a business together, it was very simple because we essentially grew up together on thirty seven so it that means we got together when we're like 16 to 18 years old, so we grew through our 20’s and the mistakes that happened there, we you know group through our thirties and all that, so for us it's an no brainer because we do everything together and we get along in everything that we do. I've been told that that's unique, so when it comes to running a family business or bringing in like somebody of a really close partner gonna be the best friend something like that, I the that best advice I could give or the best perspective I could give is like, you have to have a respect that person but for you have a business or relationship with that person, so if you're going to have the type of arguments, where like it becomes explosive, it's probably not gonna work, it just won't, if you're gonna be in a position where you always think you know better than that other person and you're probably like a lord over them, it's probably not gonna work, but if you have a mutual respect you know each other skills and you let people follow. So if I came to Kelly and criticize her bookkeeping or her ability to take phone calls and turn them into profitable appointments or she came to me credit criticize like my art skills or my beds manner when I'm talking with the client that would probably create some sort of like, wow ruffle and feathers, but I let her do what she does best and I you know trust it and she trust me and that trust is why we've been together for twenty years, right, like you know when I was in music, you're on the road a lot for you're in small venues, but you're in venues where people are door what you're doing, that could create some sort of opportunity for jealousy or for infidelity or whatever or but it never did because you know we have that kind of trust and like I don't know like you know I have a commitment to you I'm not you know, I'm gonna talk the crown over here with nurturing that trust is like what's it's important, if you're gonna run a company together for script like you have to have let people have the room to do what they're doing and that feel like they're under them microscope or scope I think in the normal, like world business world manufacturing capitalist type know hierarchy of you know management down to entry level employee, there's always between every step but it's like competitive trust and freedom fight that's happening where it's like, no, I have a friend who just lost the job and he was like, I've been doing really, really good and then they fired me and I don't understand, and like all had sucks that's a tragedy you know how can you know be doing a great job we get fired, and then we were talking about like what's going on you know he's like, yeah, I've you know only shown up late a few times but you know give sense they said it's okay very, yeah I'm like you know and they're really upset that I was doing things out of order but they all getting done like okay, okay, okay, and I started to realize that in what he was describing to me, like, so management has a set of expectations and you're getting the job done but not following the way that they want so now there's like like this deficiency between and I but this like gap of understanding between the two, so they're like a little bit worried and you're doing your thing and then you're like well I'm doing my thing my own way and it's working out I don't understand why they don't see that whether they're not rewarding for that like okay, well now we're in a position where there's like this combative like relationship, right?If you're gonna run your own company, remove the competitive elements of it, get just like let people spread their wings and lead into their strengths, if something bad happens that could like you know change the trajectory of what you're doing irreversibly, then of course like you know intervene have the fight it whatever has to happen, but do it over lunch, right? You know, they'll just like you know show up and like yell at somebody like in front of the clients hits or whatever in front of other stat there being you know let's talk about how this call me instead like have it, and that's really worked, the happy other you know answer I have to like you know, how does it work like you know what is it like to work your spouse, I enjoy being around right so from tattooing, if I'm sad I can look 40 feet away and see her smiling, I'm like alright, we're good.

Jim: That's awesome, that's so cool man. And congrats something of I know a lot of people can't do that, a lot of people they struggle to work together so that's really good advice and I'm gonna take some of that and learn from it myself, so Remote Start Nation , I hope you can do the same. Los, were coming to an end here, so before we go, I do want it you to let the Remote Start Nation, know of you know where they can find you, we didn't get a chance to really hit on your book or hit on your podcast, so I'm looking forward to future episodes where we can talk about that stuff or you know maybe even next time in town maybe come in and get some work done and get on your podcast.

Karlos: For sure, yeah I love it.

Jim: That'd be awesome, so yeah let the Remote Start Nation know where we can find you.

Karlos: Yeah, definitely, we have a very modest website that's portal to like you know our, facebook and instagram,box5tattoo.com B-O-X, the number 5,T-A-T-T-O-O, that's where you'll get hooked up with the shop or for you know, my socials and my social we can then find the various things that I'm into, I think that the curse of the artist is every hour thinks they can do to everything but like I've already been saying here like you should probably be include it if you feel like doing it, so you find links to podcast, to my novel, to my art, so it's tattooing to all of that, and I do educational seminars, I teach realism and tattooing, so like you know if that's something that you're gonna understood that's a very small sock of the audience I'm sure but if that's something didn't check that out.

Jim: Awesome, well Los, thank you again for dropping so much value with us today. I look forward to having you back in the future.

And with that, Remote Start Nation, I hope you can put some of this value to work for you today, and start something now, from bottom of my heart, thank you for all for joining us on this journey as I help you start your business, grow your brand, and create your desired lifestyle.

Remember, leave a comment, subscribe, share this episode with your community. Anyone you think could learn from it, and until next time go start something, start today, and go build the lifestyle desire by taking action.