E27: Connect the Dots in Your Life to Create a Sustainable Passion for Your Business with Rich Hogan

Jim: What is up Remote Start Nation! Let's get something started. I'm Jim Doyon and I wanted to welcome you to another episode of Remote Start, where I bring you stories and strategies on how to start a business, build a brand, and create your desired lifestyle. On today's episode, we're going to be discussing how connecting the dots in your life can create a sustainable passion for your future business. Not everything we do is going to end up the way we envision. Things happen, people change, but it's very important to learn and take something away from every job we hold. Learn what you like and more importantly, get a feel for what you don't like. Remote Start Nation, in order to help us understand this, I brought on someone today who's owned multiple businesses and hustled door to door, selling everything from books to Solar Energy. Rich Hogan is the co-founder and CEO of Enrollsy as well as White Owl Security. His experiences with his past employers and job responsibilities came full circle in being the catalyst, for him and this entrepreneurial journey. Today, Rich is going to share his story and remind us that if we connect the dots of lessons learned through life experiences, that we too can create a business that is rewarding and allow us to do what we love.

So without further ado, Rich, welcome to the Remote Start Nation.

Rich: Thanks, Jim. Yeah, nice to be here.

Jim: Yeah, we're excited to have you, you know, listening, reading your bio, you know, connecting with you a little bit before this podcast, you've got a great story, man, and I'm very, very fortunate to have you today and I'm really looking forward to sharing it with Remote Start Nation. So, you know, thank you so much for taking the time outta your day to come on the podcast with us.

Rich: Yeah, my pleasure. It's good to reflect and think about why you're doing what you're doing, it's easy to get caught up in the day to day and the grind and the hustle and sometimes just taking the time to articulate or to regurgitate like the things that led you to where you are is actually therapeutic and just like kind of a guiding star, so it was fun to, it was fun to kind of prepare.

Jim: Awesome. Well, with that said, like, let's start, let's get into it. Let's start with Enrollsy. Talk to us about, you know, when you started Enrollsy, how long it's been around, and tell us more about, you know, what Enrollsy is.

Rich: Yeah, so Enrollsy, officially started in terms of like our incorporation in July of 2017, so we've been around about five years, a little over five years now. It was kind of like bubbling or I guess kind of, building itself in my mind, for a number of years before that, but really it's, it kind of came to fruition that year as we kind of released the first version of the product and got a first customer and kind of got everything going. So, you know, at its core of the product basically makes it easy for businesses who have an enrollment model, that's usually kind of an instructor led type setup, whether it's a group class or private lessons or like a recurring event where one or many people sign up. We call it kind of like an ongoing relationship. So there's of course, like an eCommerce purchase that's a little different than what we do. Amazon and others have made relationships out of those customers, but we're talking about something where someone's gonna attend, maybe get some value through a service or learn something, that's kind of who we target. So we make it easy for those businesses to collect the information that they need to collect about their customer, to present payment options you know, and collect money for those services, and do a host of other things like on the backside, so there's kind of a front office piece of the enrollment and the payments, and there's a back office side where they can take attendance and communicate with the customer, you know, after classes and during classes and all sorts of stuff there. So it's been, it's a big ambitious product, it's still kind of growing, although not as much anymore as it once was but yeah, we're kind of more in the refinement stage, but yeah, it's been super fun to build we've been able to meet just so many small and medium sized business owners and even some bigger kind of franchise and you know, bigger companies as well, so, lot is there, but that's said in a nutshell what we do and that's works.

Jim: That's awesome. And that Enrollsy isn't your first business venture either, so tell me a little bit about how your entrepreneurial journey began.

Rich: Yeah, so I mean, I'd have to say it began outta high school, I was recruited by my sister of all people to sell books door to door, so I left, I left home in Houston to go to Northern Minnesota. We had like a week of sales training in Nashville, Tennessee, and then kind of thrown to the wolves, almost literally in northern Minnesota but yeah, it was there that like I realized kind of like my personality type, I tend to be a little more introverted, but I like one on one, I really like to get to know people and it took me a while it took me like three weeks of knocking doors for like 75 hours a week to make my first sale, but once I had that first sale and I saw that transaction happen, that exchange of money for something of perceived value, I don't know what it was, Jim, it just kind of like, took me in, so I really rolled with it. I think there were like 3,500 kids or something like that went out to sell that summer, and you know, I've never been like the top sales guy, but yeah, I finished like number 89 or something like that in the company that summer, and it was just really rewarding after having such a rough start to have a good finish. So for me, that kind of got the entrepreneurial side of me really going, of course, when I was a kid, I used to like, you know, sell artwork and stuff at school to buy chocolate milks and just whatever I could do, so I was kind of always, I think, geared that way, but yeah, once you get older, you kind of get the creativity beat out of you at school and just, you know, life, you're trying to figure it out, and so for me, sales was just like, it was awesome because I was technically running my business, yeah, I had a manager, but there was no one out there like telling me what to do every day, if I needed a break, I took a break, I had to deliver books to all the people that I sold to. So a huge 18 wheeler pulled up at the end of the summer and I had to unload this huge truck full of boxes of books, and I had to go, and back then it's like no phones, right? So, yeah, I ran McNally map and I was putting together my delivery list of like, trying to do this in an efficient manner, but yeah, it's like loading my car up with boxes of books and delivering them to people and collecting the back half of the payment, it's like, you learn a lot about, just like what people expect in from somebody taking their order and delivering a product or a service and like yeah, it just kind of opened my eyes, so it definitely started back then, but you know how, like I was saying, I mean, life just kind of takes it out of you, so, after that, that was kind of what got me through college and stuff, but then I got married and kind of felt like I needed a real job, you know, door to door doesn't feel like a real job for most women.

Jim: And not to mention like that is not an easy job, like you talk about connecting the dots in life and learning and getting off on an entrepreneurial, you know, foot, like you get beat down so many times doing door to door sales, especially doing something like that, like you had to, you had to learn a lot that summer.

Rich: Yeah, definitely, you know, more no's than yes’s and you learn how to suffer through the rejection and stuff and, you know, that's not for everybody and that's fine, like I don't think you have to be a salesperson to be an entrepreneur, I don't think you have to have that side of the skillset, like all polished and stuff, but it's definitely not a bad way to start I mean, at some point you're probably gonna have to sell something to somebody so it doesn't hurt to have some experience doing, but for me it was definitely the path. So, you know, after that I, you know, got married and felt like I needed to grow up and get a real job, I finished school and I ended up working for about seven or eight years for a big company doing kind of risk management, tech sales, so that was very different and we're talking about from a knock on the door, close a $400 purchase to you know, sometimes a million dollar contract or multimillion dollar contract that took two and a half years and I was dealing with CFOs and stuff, so a lot of the same skills transferred though, and so that was fun to see, but that kind of ushered me into a different kind of part of my life.

Jim: And it's about taking that, what you learned from that, and like you said, taking those same skills that you learn in sales and applying it to the next position.

Rich: Yeah, people are still people, you know, the CFO or whatever at the company has motivations and has desires. Just like anybody sitting behind a door that might open the door might have, they're just, they're just in a different context. So, you know, you can definitely learn from any job, and I think most soft skills that are really important, you know, can go with you to every job that you have, and so, I definitely saw that, but the whole time I was there, I was trying to be like, I was trying to be, I guess what you might call like an entrepreneur, I kind of thought like, Hey, I'm here at this company, I was an early employee and I thought, you know, they need to do these things, I recognize that they're missing these things, they should be doing these things, and you know, once you get into the corporate world, there's a lot of politicking and there's a lot of stuff that goes on, maybe some entrepreneurs aren't really cut out for, or don't really enjoy, I tried to embrace it, but ultimately I realized that like, that's not my thing, so like, climbing the corporate ladder just didn't appeal to me so much. And once I kind of realized that and realized that, you know, good ideas that had merit were gonna be met with resistance, not because of their value, but because they weren't proposed by some other person, started to kind of lose its appeal.

Jim: So, you know, I know entrepreneurs, we start businesses for all different reasons, you know. What are some of the reasons that, you know, behind starting Enrollsy?

Rich: Yeah. So I mean there's a lot of back story that you know, probably don't have time to go into, but this whole transaction thing that I talked about selling and that experience of like seeing a transaction go through that sparked me, you know, in the early days of this career, my car broke down and I ended up getting a ride to work with a neighbor friend of mine and just in that time, I found out what he did almost like you're interviewing me, I kind of every day on the drive to work would interview him and talk to him, and I just became pretty fascinated with what he was doing and he was selling merchant accounts and he had 10 99 reps, like 200 of them that were just out there bringing him business really, and he was an awesome guy, I still consider him a friend today. And you know, he paid these guys well to bring them family and friends and other business owners who they knew and had a relationship with, and he just gave them good deals on their merchant accounts, and so I just said, Hey, I want to sell for you, like, can I do that? And so in that process, and again, I'm still, I'm working at this other company, but I start poking around and I talk with my uncle who works at a country club and is a golf pro there and just say, hey, how do you, how do people buy their clubs and he complains about his merchant processing and so, you know, I tell him, hey, let's, you know, let's get you switched over and he is like I didn't know you did that, and so around that time, right when I started doing that, my brother-in-law came to me and just said, hey, you know, do you know anyone that does merchant accounts? And I said, I do, and so long story short, his business became really successful. Well, the way that model works is, I mean, you kind of ride the coattails of the businesses who you underwrite and who are processing payments and so as his company got bigger and more successful, I became a beneficiary in my commissions of their success, and it, it got pretty incredible, to the point that I could have easily quit my job without any, you know, one saying, What are you doing? What are you thinking? I didn't quit my job, I stayed there, but, you know, eventually his company got purchased and that, that acquisition, someone else came in and cleared out all the vendors and brought their own people in and we got cut out overnight. So I had seen this like power of transactional revenue and kind of that in combination with my lack of interest in climbing the corporate ladder and just the politics of things connected with like, just that maybe desire to go back to like running my own thing, even though selling books wasn't, you know, what I was interested in getting back into, you know, I kind of knew I just wanted to get back to doing something on my own and I wanted to have this transactional revenue component. So it was definitely, I would say that was, that played a major part in why Enrollsy and like why we went down that path, so, yeah, I mean that was a big part of it.

Jim: So what about, Enrollsy’s enrollment, right? Like, so you're that transactional piece, you knew that you wanted to do something with the transactions, right? That was something that you loved, you saw the value of, you know, the commission checks that came from that. You know, did you look also at a lot of like your past experiences and say like you wanted to do, you knew what you didn't like, and you knew what made you happy? Right, yeah. How did that play a role?

Rich: Yeah, for sure. I mean basically in the sales process, like, you know, in the beginning we were scanning credit cards with these little plastic machines and on two part NCR paper and taking orders and ripping off a copy and giving it to the customer, and really even up until, like right before I started Enrollsy, just kept seeing businesses having paper processes, that seemed crazy to me, in fact, we took our son to a local preschool here and my wife had to wait outside, like in the cold early January to try to get the schedule that she wanted, and she came back and was like, I've heard so many good things about this school, like this was totally worth it, we got this schedule that we wanted, then as the years went by, I just thought, wow, this is crazy, they're still doing this, and so yeah, like to me, taking friction out of a transaction, making it easy for people to engage in business together, I can't think of something that is more impactful and more basic and fundamental in our economy than that, and so I just saw this area where, it doesn't matter what you're selling, like there's a level of intake, there's a level of information exchange, there's a level of trust exchange that has to happen, and the better your tools are to do that with like the less friction you have, the easier it is to like, convince someone of the value that you have and to get over those initial hurdles and get them in the door. All these things definitely played into, you know, why Enrollsy, Like why pick something like enrollment? You know, as we chatted with friends and others that have kids our age, we just, you know, we found out that like for most people it was just like paper forms, emails, lots of exchanges before the actual transaction happens and it's, hey, how can we cut that down to just a quick, simple two minute experience that they can do from their phone anywhere versus all these other ways that it's being done. So yeah, I mean, connecting all these things, you know, I think was important, we needed something that, I needed something personally that I could control and own, I needed something that I was passionate about, which the transactions and that sort of thing had kind of opened my eyes to what's possible there. So yeah, I mean there was a lot of that that went into it, I didn't want to go back to that corporate kind of enterprise two year sales cycle, and personally I was pretty pressured because I had just, I had actually at the time that, I started Enrollsy shortly before that, had kind of surprised, had the rug pulled out from underneath me with this other job, they actually kind of cut me out of the company, at a time when, I was supposed to be getting stock and, you know, supposed to be coming to fruition, so I had a lot of pressure and, you know, I kind of had to think quickly and think, how can I put something together that I can start selling quick, not, you know, not take forever to build.

Jim: I feel like a lot of times that pressure, when we feel that pressure, especially when we have a family and other people to feed, I feel like it's a great way to create something special because it's all of a sudden it's like all these things that have been in your head and all your past experiences, like they all come to a boiling point and it's like, okay, I have to act now, my business partner and I, Nathan in Woodward movement, like even with our ink at brand, that was something that we always were proud about, that like, no matter what, when our back was against the wall and when we had to act quick, and even now, like anytime there's something that when we feel like our back's against the wall, I feel like we do our best, and I feel like, you know, you did the same thing with starting a brand that's done really well and you know, it came from having to, having to act quick.

Rich: Yeah. I think there are entrepreneurs who are so natural at it and are so inclined to do it that they're always one step ahead and they, and they maybe don't or at least it seems that way, maybe in your interviews with them you find out that that's not really the case, maybe people just look like that, and appearances are definitely something different than the reality, but I do think that there's opportunity for people to jump into on to being an entrepreneur, even when you, like, I don't think, I never once said to myself like, formally, I'm gonna start and build a software company, I like never said that to myself, like it wasn't until all that pressure came that it forced me, like you're saying, to connect those dots and say, Hey, I know about transactions. I've spent the last 10 years selling software, it's risk management software, it's different, but it's the same thing, right? And I just was able to pull it all together. And so I think that, you know, that's kind of like my message is just that people that are learning from what they're going through, it doesn't have to be your sole means of, I think, of income either, I think we're seeing a lot of people nowadays, a lot of the businesses that we work with, they come to us while they're working a full-time job and they're starting a summer camp for kids, or they're starting, you know, some type of school or something where it's like a side gig, and some of these companies started with us as a side gig and are now very big multimillion dollar companies who have just grown over the past couple years, and so, you know, I think a lot of people here in America, at least, can connect with this story and just this idea that, hey, there's something that I'm passionate about that I'm not doing every day at work, and is there a way I could turn that into something that, I do for work?

Jim: And to your point and for the Remote Start Nation, you know, we're not always in positions, we're in a job that we absolutely love, but I think it's so important to take positive and negative at every position you're in, and there's four key points that you wanted to get across on this podcast and you know, one of them was, you know, these events that we are, that happened to us in our lives and, you know, they're, they might not feel significant at the time, but down the road they can be significant. So, you know, I want you to hit on it more, but I want to really make sure Remote Start Nation, that you grasp that if you're not already in your own, you know, as an entrepreneur and running your own business and you're working for somebody else, or you know, you're looking at doing a high side hustle or something else, but you know, you don't know how to get there, like, learn from what you're doing now, take what you're going through and live it to its best because at some point it's gonna come full circle.

Rich: Yeah, absolutely, I mean that's kind of definitely been my story on a number of fronts and maybe for me that's just what I needed is like little stepping stones before I had the confidence to just completely go on my own, and also some of it was like that bad experience of getting kind of canned, which was like very, it felt very unnecessary and very, unfair if you will, not to have like a victim mentality, but just didn't feel right when it happened, but in hindsight, it's like, I'm so glad that happened because I wouldn't be here, I wouldn't have built this, had that not happened. And so, I mean, yeah, like I could, I think that's a really good point, Jim, because when my car broke down and I met that guy and started talking about merchant accounts, I think there's always two paths you can take, you can just superficially experience life or you can be interested and I think in general, entrepreneurs tend to be very interested in things and want to know how things work and want to be able to use that knowledge to their advantage at some point in the future. So for me, if I had never had that exposure to merchant accounts, number one, I would've missed out on a tremendous windfall of income but number two, I wouldn't have made the third party relationships and negotiations that I made that actually support our revenue model now. So, you know, we charge less, we can afford to charge less than a lot of our competitors that are strictly relying on stripe and other processors who don't split revenue because of that, like, because I know that that's out there, I negotiated different terms with different providers and so yeah, that experience was a huge one. You could have just said, hey, my car broke down this is the worst and, you know, taken public transit and not talked with anybody and just buried yourself in your problems but, you know, I think just like people and meeting people and talking with people and being willing to step outside of your comfort zone is a big way to do that, so that's kind of that, that first point and kind of the second point too, where it's like you, it's taking like my sales experience and that merchant account experience, and then the experience enrolling our own kids into something and it's like being able to tie those things together so individually, each one of those things is probably rather ordinary and not very significant of a business idea, but when you put all those together, that's really what Enrollsy is.

Jim: For sure, and to your point, it's about taking the time to reflect and going back to these experiences and connecting those dots to pull it and understand that, okay, this is significant to what I'm trying to do, you know, this is something I was really passionate about at my last, my last job, or this is something that I got excited about every day to do, how can I put that into my business? How can I put that into what I want to do daily? I look back at it too and I talk about this in one of my first episodes, but, you know, understanding your why and being passionate about what you do, because as we go through and you know what, as entrepreneurs, we're listening to our customers and we're listening to others, and we're always trying to get to that next level but if we lose sight of why we're passionate about something or what it is that we absolutely love and why we're starting our business, a lot of times you get derailed and fail and so I like to look at that as, you know, step back, take the time to reflect, look at what it is that you liked about each job that you had or whatever life event it was, and then putting that into something that you can get behind.

Rich: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that you know, you mentioned this early on, but just like also notating what you don't like, and that can be about a boss or that can be about a situation doesn't have to be about a person, it could just be about the dynamics of a culture or a situation, right? One of the things that just drove me crazy about my corporate experiences, just how much I strove and like tried to act like an owner of the company because I knew that was in the best interest of our customer and the company itself to have an employee who's invested, who wants the company to succeed, and how little that actually paid back to me in dividends, just because of their culture and it's like their unwillingness to reward employees who, you know, really contributed and made a big impact. And you know, there's a difference between paying someone a salesperson, a commission that is part of their agreement of why they're working for you to earn the commission, and like noticing, hey, someone just brought in a contract that's worth half of our entire business, like should we tell them thank you in some other way? Right? It doesn't even have to be like giving someone equity, but like even just the way you treat people, so, you know, I learned, you know, that's one of the things that I learned and Enrollsy, right now, and for the foreseeable future, we're an employee owned company, so everyone that works here has stock and we're actually not just talking about some remedial amount of stock, we give people a choice, they don't have to take stock as their compensation, but people that work here like have the ability to choose or choose not to, stock be a significant part of their compensation and the reason for that is bacuase I spent half, I mean, I spent a huge portion of my life just busting it for a company and feeling like I really got nothing in return outside of my paycheck, which was expected, Right?

Jim: So from, that's so powerful, that is absolutely so powerful. So from that experience in your life, you wanna make sure that you're building your culture and one of your core values is as giving that to the employees and being employee owned and that's powerful, man. A lot of people will never do that, that's really powerful.

Rich: Yeah. it's hard, not everybody wants that, and we are kind of, by doing that, we're kind of weeding out a certain number of people who, who might otherwise be great contributors to our business, but in the end, yeah, that's a core value here that we're just not gonna give on, and it's, and to me it goes back to our roots. So I have some other co-founders who, you know, also weighed in on things that are important to them, and of course they had their own life experience and they, I don't think it's that they don't value that ownership, but they have some other things that are really important to them, and so, yeah, I just think whether you're kind of the sole founder or your co-founding, I think that, you know, bringing those things to the table can really help round out your culture and kind of like what really shape your brand. And that was one of the things that we talked about as we were kind of prepping is just, you know the business and the brand itself will kind of reflect, you know, the things that you've learned collectively, you and, and whoever else if you're co-founding.

Jim: And that's, and to that point, you know, my agency Woodward movement, we work with a lot of companies to, you know, help them to brand and put together what we like to do as the brand guidelines, and what that does is it takes you and your other co-founders and puts your core values together and build it, so anybody you hire after that, you're hiring off those values, you know what you're looking for in an employee, and even better yet, as someone that goes and works for your company, they understand who you are, they understand who they're going to work for, and they're not gonna get the rug pulled out from under like you did, you know, and that's, to me, that's so big, like to have. I talk about this in a lot of previous episodes, something I'm very passionate about is laying it out, you know, for me, my business partner and I, when our first venture, we went from just us to in the basement where we did everything ourselves, and this is years ago when we were young and didn't know any better to growing to, you know, 28 employees and all of a sudden you're not doing any of the stuff you used to do, so you don't have that customer interaction, you're not face to face with a client, you're now in meetings all day trying to solve problems, and what you lose is that culture you lose that what used to be super important that you wanted to show to a client, and anytime there's an issue and a customer's talking to you and you're walking them through it, now your employee's not handling something the same way because you don't have those values laid out, you don't have your brand set up properly to be able to scale, and so yeah, that's really important that you and your co-founders did that to put together your values to, to form your identity.

Rich: Yeah. That's like a scary thing that I think like we're in the middle of kind of watching happen as we've grown is just like, yeah, you kind of hold your breath for a while bacause you're just like, well, I know how I deal, I know how I deal with all these situations, but how's this person that we're bringing on gonna deal with this, and yeah, transferring that is not easy and it's not something that happens on its own and if you think that you're charismatic enough or whatever, that it's just gonna happen because you tell someone to do something, it's not gonna happen, they have to have same values as you if you want them to act in a similar way, so, yeah that's a really good point.

Jim: So the last thing, the fourth thing that you wanted to cover was, you know, about being an entrepreneur at heart and, you know, taking time to, you know, understand yourself and, you know, being patient, so is that, can you hit on that a little bit further?

Rich: Yeah. I mean, so when everything went down that, at that kind of enterprise sales position, and I lost that job and that income, you know, there was a, I had kind of been thinking that that might happen, I'd kind of seen the writing on the wall, and so I started thinking about like, what would I do if like I had to do something right now, like come up with, what would I do if I was just like, just like back in the day when I left Nashville and just went to Northern Minnesota and started knocking on doors, it's like, how crazy is that, right? Well, it's easy as you get older and have a family start taking things for granted, but like, what if your job went away like that, because if it happens to people, what would you do? And it's like, it's not just, what would you do, I'd go interview and I'd go take unemployment for six months or a year, no, It's like what would you do to contribute to society? What would you do to have an impact on the world around you and not just, you know, leech off of a system of some sort, right? And so as I started thinking about that, you know, I had been in this world of risk management and insurance, and all I was hearing about was cyber insurance, cyber insurance. And so as I started looking around, I just started talking with a couple CEOs that I knew and said, Hey, what are you guys doing for cyber? And, you know, truth is like, they weren't really doing a lot, but they were going and buying insurance, and if you look at all the carve outs and all those insurance, forms and everything, it's like, well, yeah, like you're actually not gonna get the coverage you think you are because you're not doing these basic things, you know that you need to, it's like, well, how's your homeowners gonna go when you get robbed for the third time and they come and you have no locks on your doors or your windows kind of thing, right? Probably pretty expensive homeowner's policy, so that's kind of what I saw and that got me reaching out to more CEO’s and as this all went down and I lost my job, I packaged this service together and said, Hey, like let's do some basic risk management stuff, let's do some basic cyber stuff here and then let's look at buying a policy that's actually gonna support you in the event that there's a gap, and, you know, it was to a degree successful and it's still running today, I have other people that operate that business for me. This kind of I guess that's kind of a long way to get to this point but I realized after doing that that was born out of necessity for me, it was a great idea and I think it was actually even potentially a little ahead of its time because in the years that have come, since so many security startups, you know, security is a service, has become a bigger thing but ultimately that was not for me like I didn't really like that world at all, and so it actually, at a point I felt really distraught cause I was like, wow, like I can't believe this, like I lost this job, lost this payment processing revenue when my brother-in-law's company sold, I felt like I had no control in either of those, now I've started this business, it's kind of successful, but I actually hate it, I actually don't wanna live in the world of like fighting cyber bullies like all the time, like that is not at all interesting to me, and it was kind of depressing, but, you know, all in all what happened is like, that gave me that process of starting that company gave me enough of a boost that I was like, okay, I can do this again, like I'm good at finding like something that people want and selling it, so let me just get into something, and that's when I started to really synthesize and just put all these dots together and so I think ultimately that final bullet point is just like be patient, like life is long, hopefully for all of us, I mean, I know that's not the case for everyone, but we're never thinking that it's not gonna be, so plan, you know, plan to give yourself a break here and there, you know, plan to give a chance to like, learn from mistakes and from, and to me, not a mistake, it's been an awesome thing, it like sustained me through a really tough part of my life, it provided a great service to companies that needed it, and it's served a purpose, right? It's not my end game, but, you know, my brother-in-law who started a really big successful company, guess what, he's not just sitting around in, you know, vacation home he's still doing it again, like he's still working again, so I think that's the other thing, as most entrepreneurs, they're not really ever done, so it's like, you know, why hurry and get done? Because you're gonna just get the itch again to do something else.

Jim: That's a great point, have patience, that's the great point. Well, I know our time's come into an end, I am very thankful again for you taking the time to sit here with us and it adds so much value. Before we go, let the Remote Start Nation know where they can find you.

Rich: Yeah. So I am almost living and breathing inside Enrollsy right now, so if you have a business where you are doing enrollment, you're having a class or you're doing something where you need the tools that we have, come check us out and Enrollsy.com if you just want to chat or connect or have other questions or want to network, feel free to find me on LinkedIn, I'm happy to connect that way too.

Jim: Awesome, and I'll drop your LinkedIn and Enrollsy.com and the show notes, so be sure to check there, and with that said, Remote Start Nation, I hope you learned as much as I did today and could put some of what Rich shared with us to work for you. As always, thank you for joining me on this journey as I help you to start your business, grow your brand, and create your desired lifestyle. So just remember, leave a comment, subscribe, and share this episode with your community who you think can learn from something that you heard today.

Until next time, go start something, start today and go build a lifestyle you desire by taking action.

Rich, it's been incredible. Thank you so much and I look forward to speaking to you further.

Rich: Hey, thanks Jim. It was awesome.

Jim: Absolutely. We'll talk soon my friend!